Fair Play, Honesty, and Integrity

[No308]

Fair play, honesty and integrity. Is it missing in the world of Multi Racing?
I was a witness to the final round of the UK World Champion Ship eliminators at the weekend and watch some of the best 15cc racing I have seen. I partially watched very closely the progress of boat No8 who stated a lap down and drove one of the best races I have seen. I this person drive with determination and skill and finish the race without stoping. But was shocked and disgusted with the results that are posted. It transpires that the winner of the last heat of the 15cc racing was placed 6th overall when in fact he finished at least in 5th place or maybe even 4th. I would like to know how and why the transponder system failed this racer and a manual system was ignored. I have looked at the laps published on this site http://www.modelboatracing.co.uk/ and it confirms that No8 boat made at least 86 laps. Fair play, honesty and integrity I think not? 
Signed Richard Harris

[Multi Racer]

Hi Richard,
I have to agree with you the racing at the weekend was excellent, and the event seem to be very well run. I also have to agree that we do need fair play in our sport for all that is why we have rules and regulations to abide by.
Before the event I believe that all competitors where made aware that there would be no manual lap counting, only the AMB system as per the World Championships. So please can you tell me why the rules should be different for No8, surely for fair play the rules should be the same for everyone? I can totally appreciate the disappointment of No8 but rules are rules, the same for everyone!
May I suggest that your time would be best spent reading and learning the rules rather than typing posts like this?
Regards  Multiman.

[Fredde Cederberg]

only the AMB system as per the World Championships

This is not correct, at the last WC they used BBKrc and did correct manually.

Before the event I believe that all competitors where made aware that there would be no manual lap counting

This is BS, the germans did the same in Hannover, we can't 100% trust the system so why not count manually.

May I suggest that your time would be best spent reading and learning the rules rather than typing posts like this?

Does it say anywhere in the rules that counting shall not be made manually when using transponders??


And for last as I am one of the Moderators of this forum, we preffer all users to use their names, Multiman please use your name.

[No308]

Yes the rules and regulations were in place but were over ruled by the committee at the time, but they did not post the correct scores and that is what is being questioned. Also it has proved once agian that the transponder system is not 100% reliable for model boats.

[Fredde Cederberg]

That's true Richard, and that's why the computer has to be monitored and laps corrected/counted manually.

By the way, have you started racing again? You are the Richard Harris that was at the WC in Sweden back in 1992, right?

[No308]

Hi Freddie Cederberg. Yes I am the same Richard Harris (GB AC31) from the World Champs in Sweden and other World Champ events. I was thinking of returning to Multi Racing but after watching the fiasco of the British Eliminators I am not sure I want to be a part of this tight knit group. Where those in favor qualify and those not in favor don’t.
Maybe you might want to log onto Dave Marles forum and read the discussions about the laps scoring system. Nice to here from you and your comments will be valued.

[Fredde Cederberg]

I think you have to come back racing, it is fun, I really don't know what happened at the race in England but if someone had missed laps in the counting a protest should have been made(maybe it was).

I have been in that discussion as well and stated my point

[C Fridh]

Maybe you might want to log onto Dave Marles forum and read the discussions about the laps scoring system.

Hi!
Like some of the other Swedes said on Dave Marles forum, we use a "caller" on the races in Sweden to assist the computer operator. If a boat doesnt give a signal when passing, the caller announces the boat number to the computer operator and he will manually count the lap. We have had transponders working fine for 5 minutes, and then go blank on us, that is why we have this system.
We are not many racers in Sweden, and if we can manage to get two people to do the counting, so can the "bigger" countries. Nobody wants to have a race weekend thrown in the bin because of the transponder not working...
Having said that, and not having been at this particular race, I find it hard to believe that somebody did it on purpouse. Misstakes can be done everywere and that is why it is important that the results are being presented in such a way that a racer can be given the opportunity to make a formal protest.

Best regards
/Christian

[No308]

I think your system of operating race control sounds perfect. Why the rest of the world doesn’t adapt this system leaves me completely baffled it sounds so simple. Number plates would still be compulsory for missed laps. If added to this a Lap Top is used for the manual back up and missed laps it covers all the needs of Multi Racing. Some one has to write a simple program for the Lap Top and a print out for each heat needed. This would only be used in a dispute to verify the transponder system.

[Fredde Cederberg]

Some one has to write a simple program for the Lap Top and a print out for each heat needed. This would only be used in a dispute to verify the transponder system.

This is not necessary, in the BBKRc it is very easy to add the missed lap when it occurs, it will show in the result list with a small marker that your laps has been manually edit.

[No308]

Hi Freede. Well it does sound as if you have the perfect system.
I have tried to engage in this subject of Fair Play, Honesty and Intgrat on the Prestwich Models forum, but I  have been now bared. I mentioned an incident and a person by name. Did not know that these were the rules of this site and I suppose the subject is contentious.

[Fredde Cederberg]

I really don't understand the issue, England are using (if they haven't changed) the same software as us, so it must just be an issue of know how.

[No308]

Hi Freede
  I am not sure if they know how to use it or it is convenient not to enter the missed laps. The UK operators of the lap scoring system seem to think it is 100% right and there are no problems. They say it is only the model boater who is to blame and his transponder does not work correctly!!!!

[w3bby]

I guess that there are 2 sides to this story and that we are only hearing one side. From the lap scores the majority of boats registered every lap so I would say that the system didn't fail the competitor but that the competitor needs to look over his transponder setup. I inform competitors that have problems after a heat so that they have the opportunity to make adjustments.
The system is not infallible as we operate the system well outside the published specifications (max 15cm to the antenna). The ability to hand count is a good backup and that this was not done is unfortunate.
I notice that no corrections were applied to the first round results whilst the second round shows adjustments (marked with a "c"). Indeed that is the only heat that shows adjustments.
A closer look at round 1 (totally speculative, I was not there so have no idea about slow laps due to the rescue boat being out, bogging down, rescues etc..) using a count back (same method as I use in Sweden) I would have awarded 82 laps after corrections to V8 (as long as he didn't have any problems during the 5m 34.3s gap) and on round 2 83 laps. However on the same basis I would have adjusted V2 to 92 laps, V4 to 60 laps, V5 to 91 laps and V6 to 91 laps. Again this is TOTALLY SPECULATIVE!! as I was not there.
The competitor in question is not complaining so I guess that he is satisfied with the way this was handled and the final results.

[No308]

Thanks for you fair minded comments on your view of the race results as published. I still think if you had been at this meeting your opinion might have been different. The competitor is afraid to rock the boat after his initial complaint.
Rgds

Richard